“Yes Officer, I DO have permission
to travel with my children”.
Me with my three kids at some random airport waiting for our next flight (2012).
So you want to travel or live abroad with your kids and expose them to other cultures but your ex is saying “NO WAY”. What do you do? Here is my personal story of how I was able to get permission to travel and then to live abroad with my kids despite my ex-husband (the father of my 2 sons) FIGHTING ME TOOTH AND NAIL. It wasn’t easy but it can be done.
Travelling When One Parent Is Not Present.
If you have kids and want to travel internationally without the other parent, you are supposed to have written permission from the other parent. Without written permission, you run the risk of getting denied entry into that other country.
But what happens when the other parent refuses to write you a letter giving you permission? Even between the US and Canada.
Our Routine Flight To Montreal
In 2010, I flew into Montreal like I’ve done so many times before with two minor differences.
I only had 2 of my 3 children with me and my husband Blake was not with me. Blake and my eldest son were driving a moving truck across the country towards some tiny storage unit somewhere in Massachusetts.
I exited the plane with my son and daughter and promptly walked to the immigration and customs area to wait in line to get our passports stamped. When it was our turn, I handed the customs agent our passports.
He immediately took them and furrowed his eyebrows as if he were straining to read our names.
He looked up at us, then back at our passports and back at us and did this a few more times
No Big deal, I expected this scrutiny since I was ONE ADULT flying with kids and no father in sight.
Travelling is more complicated for us
To make matters worse, in addition to me flying alone with my children, it’s not immediately apparent that I am the children’s mother because we have three different last names.
If you haven’t guessed yet, I have a blended family.
We Have Three Different Last Names
FIRST NAME: My name is Annie Andre. Andre is my maiden name that I’ve kept on all my documents.
SECOND NAME: I’ve remarried and my daughter and my husband have the same last name.
THIRD NAME: My two sons are from a previous marriage over a decade ago and they have my ex-husbands last name. It doesn’t help that one of my son’s first name is my last name ( “ANDRE”). I digress!
Papers Please!
I’m used to carrying documents showing that I have permission to travel with my sons.
95% of the time, I am never asked for proof that I have permission to take my boys out of the country but today was one of those rare occasions. However the passport agent only asked me to show my “permission slip” to travel with my daughter and NOT my son. Okaaaaay?
I smiled and pulled out my proof:
- Handwritten note from my husband Blake which gave me permission to travel with Catherine. (It’s recommended you get this notarized but mine is not)
- My daughters birth certificate which showed Blake and I were her parents.
- A photocopy of Blake’s Passport for good measure.
Hypothetically speaking, had the passport agent asked me for proof that I had permission to travel with my son, I would have handed him a COURT ORDER which allows me to travel freely with my two boys.
You’ll notice, I did not have a written letter of consent from my ex husband, I had a court order. I’ll explain why and how I got this court order in a moment.
“Welcome Back to Canada”.
Then the border police stamped our passport and off we went to my family’s house in Montreal.
How I Got Permission To Travel Abroad: Travel NOT LIVE
A few years ago, Blake and I decided to elope to Europe and take our daughter and my two sons with. It was just a month long trip.
I really thought my EX would agree to let me to take the boys with us to Europe. After all, it was only a month and it was for my wedding. I really wanted it to be a family thing with us and the kids.
No amount of pleading, begging or bribing could persuade my ex into writing a letter to give me permission to travel with the boys.
I really wanted the boys to be part of the ceremony, so rather than just rolling over and leaving the boys behind, I took my ex to court and big surprise “I won”.
It was rather silly.I suppose the judge could see that my ex was trying to be difficult because he ordered him to sign all the documents so that I could apply for passports to travel abroad with the kids until the boys turned 18.
The judge also gave me permission to travel anywhere in the US and Canada and internationally without written permission from my ex as long as I tell him our itinerary.
It was this COURT ORDER I used on the day I went to Montreal with my kids and it’s what I carry with me when I travel anywhere for short visits like vacations.
But what if I want to spend more time abroad? What if I want to live abroad or spend up to a year abroad travelling with my kids?
Eloped: Intermission
In case you were wondering, we spent 3 1/2 weeks in Paris and then flew to Edinburgh Scotland to have a small civil ceremony on July 14th which happens to be Bastille day.
Here are some photos. CHEEEEEEEEEEEZE. I’m so glad we took the boys with us. It just would not have been the same without them.
This is us moments before the deed is done
Blake and I after the civil ceremony in Edinburgh. One of my sons is the photographer.
The kids hanging out at Edinburgh Castle.
The boys re-enacting the battle of Langside where Mary Queen of Scotts was defeated.
Permission to TRAVEL LONG TERM and LIVE ABROAD
I had permission to travel and visit other countries with the boys but not permission to LIVE abroad.
Right now, as I write these words, I am living in France with my husband Blake and 3 children.
The COURT ORDER that I obtained for travelling with my boys ( which I mentioned above) was not valid for “LIVING” in another country. I could stay in Europe as a tourist with my family for 90 days but I wanted to live there for a year legally and immerse the kids in French culture which meant sending them to School.
For that I needed a special visa called the “LONG STAY VISA” which gave us the right to send our kids to school and stay legally in the country for one year not 90 days.
Travel and Live are two different concepts and the French Embassy required that I either get written permission from my ex that clearly stated I could “LIVE” in France with my two sons or a court order showing that I can “LIVE” in France.
I called up my ex and explained to him what I wanted to do.
Parents send their kids abroad for a year of study all the time. I wanted my children to experience a year abroad but I wanted to be there with them. I hoped that my ex would be okay with the kids spending a year abroad. He was but not with the idea of me being there with them.
Okaaaay!
Again, no amount of pleading, begging, no agreement I came up with was good enough for him and he would not write me a letter giving me and the boys permission to live abroad.
So again I petitioned the court to intervene and decide.
SIDEBAR: Now before you jump on my back about taking the boys away from their birth father let me first say that my situation may be very different from yours.
Obviously since I am writing this while living in France, the judge granted me permission to LIVE in France with my boys.
You Are Not Guaranteed Court Approval
Just because you take your ex to court does not guarantee you will win. In my case my ex did not have a very good track record as a parent.
There were a lot of variables that worked in our favour. The bad economy and the fact that my husband and I could not find jobs in our field. The educational opportunity for the boys and the fact that we would and could be home for the kids after school.
But there was one big variable which may shock many of my friends who knew me and my ex because I have not told anyone but family and close friends about this because of fear of retaliation from my EX.
In my opinion, my ex’s LACK of involvement and lack of assistance weighed heavily on the judge’s ruling to allow us to travel.
- Rarely Saw the boys: My ex rarely saw the boys. On two separate occasions I had to pay him and his sister to baby-sit for me. ( I finally found a sitter so I could have a break once a month).
- Endangerment: Once, he was supposed to take one of my sons for 30 days in the summer but I was called by his then girlfriend after 15 days to come and pick my son up because my ex was too drunk to take care of him.
- Lack of Support:My ex went 8 years without paying me a dime of child support while receiving wages from working under the table before the courts finally took action and required proof that he was looking for a job. A real job.Now his pay-checks are automatically deducted and I get child support but he will never catch up on all the back child support that is owed to me and the boys unless he works until he is 80 +years old.
I could go on, but you get the picture right?
The Court Process:
I’ll briefly explain the court process that I went through.
At the time, I was living in Montreal and my ex was in California. I called up the lawyer I used before and asked her to file a new petition to allow me to take the kids abroad.
I did not even have to fly to California. I was on the phone for the entire court proceeding. I could hear my ex presenting his case. My lawyer was present in California on my behalf. It lasted 20 minutes at most and then the judge made his ruling and I was allowed to LIVE in France for not one but TWO years with the boys.
So How Do You Get YOUR Court Order?
Before you go and try to get a court order to travel with your kids, I strongly advise you to speak with your ex first and try to draw up an agreement. It’s not only the best way to do it, it will also cost you less money leaving you with more money for your family.
But if your ex does not want to give you permission and you have your heart set on travelling or spending a year abroad like us then you’ll have to go to court.
DO IT YOURSELF OR HIRE A LAWYER?
I hired a family law lawyer. Each time I used my lawyer it cost between 1,500 and 2,000 dollars.
The lawyer I used was in the Santa Clara County of California since that is where I lived with my kids and that is where our custody agreement is. I did nothing else but search on the Internet for a family law lawyer who handled child custody and modification agreements. Then i just called them and found the one I liked. ( I called 3).
You don’t need to hire a lawyer. You could file your own documents:
I talked with several parents who did NOT hire a lawyer. They filled out and filed their own documents and you can do this too.
Go to your local family court house and ask if they have free legal advice service or people on hand who can help you choose the correct documents and also help you fill out the paperwork.
Once your documents are filled out, you file them and wait for your court date. In addition to filing my court docs, I wrote a very wordy document about why I wanted to take the boys and why it benefited them. I wrote a little bit about how much or little my ex was involved in my boys life. There is no format for this. I just winged it and wrote from the heart.
That’s It.
WHAT DOCUMENTS DO YOU NEED TO TRAVEL OR LIVE ABROAD WITH KIDS?
Just to summarize here are the documents you should travel with.
I spoke with several parents who travel internationally or live abroad with kids (alone). Some people I spoke with don’t even get permission from their ex. They just chance it. Others didn’t even know that they were supposed to have written permission. So technically you could always chance it and go without written permission.
Personally, I wouldn’t chance it..
You never know when you will be asked to produce documentation. So here is what I recommend you travel with..
- Always travel with a letter from the other parent. It should give you permission to travel wit the kids and it should be dated and signed. Many government sites say that the letter should be notarized but so far I have only used NON notarized documents.
- I Also bring a copy of my child’s birth certificate which shows who the parents are. I have a friend (Talon, a single dad )who adopted his son and on the birth certificate it only shows him as the father the mother area is left blank so he doesn’t need to show any other documentation. Although he did say that he travels with the adoption papers just in case but that no one has even asked him to show any proof of the mothers permission.
- A copy of your spouse or the other parents ID. Preferably a passport if you can manage. I have a copy of my husbands but not my ex.
Here is a link to the Canadian site with a link to a blank letter for you to fill out. Here is the link to the U.S. site stating the requirements.
If you can’t get a letter of approval than you will have to get a court order like i did. Be very careful of the wording you use in the court order.
Will you travel with the kids on vacations? Will you live abroad for a year? What countries? Will you travel nomadically during a period of time? For how long? What about the kids education? Health Insurance? How will they communicate with the other parent while abroad?
These are all things I had to consider and answer and you may need to do the same for your court order.
The Kids Do A Lot Of Reading and Learning On The Road
ps: I wanted to add one thing.
Not many people know this story including my friends. I think a lot of them will be very shocked to find out about this private matter.
I was going to keep it private but I think and I hope in the least that my transparency and my struggles will inspire and empower other single parents and blended families not to fear un-cooperative ex spouses. I always advocate amicable relationships with ex’s but that’s just not always possible is it? You have to do what is best for the kids and that is what I did.
FINAL THOUGHTS: You Don’t Have To Agree With Me
I realize there may be some of you who disagree with the idea of travelling and living abroad with kids. You are entitled to that opinion.
I lived abroad and travelled a lot as a child and I am so grateful my parents gave me that opportunity. So much so that I want to give my kids the same gift that I received.
My kids are experiencing other cultures and seeing the way other people live first hand not to mention the fact that they are fluent in French now.
These are all things they would normally do and see in a classroom or some textbook but are getting to experience first hand. Plus they are learning to be more creative which makes for better problem solvers who can adapt better to change in this world.
It took a lot of sacrifice on my part and my husbands part to take the kids abroad but it’s totally worth it.
I would love to know your thoughts? Leave your comments below.
56 Responses to “How To Travel or Live Abroad With Kids When Your Ex Says NO!”
August 28, 2012
Jennifer MillerGreat post Annie and kudos for sharing it! I’ve been asked for the permission documents when traveling alone with my kids multiple times and it’s very important to have those things in order! I’ll be sharing this article for my friends in complicated family situations!
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August 28, 2012
Annie AndreThank You Jennifer. I was actually shocked to hear a few of my friends say that they don’t travel with any permission when they travel with their kids alone.
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I would hate to be turned away from a country if i didn’t have the necessary permission. SCARY thought.
Annie Andre recently posted..How To Travel or Live Abroad With Kids When Your Ex Says NO!
August 28, 2012
Harleena SinghCommendable indeed Annie!
You surely have undergone a great deal and reached where you are now, thanks to your will-power and determination to make things work.
It surely isn’t easy when you don’t have the support of your ex, more so when he creates further problems by being difficult where taking your kids abroad or settling there is concerned. But I guess very few ex’s would really be ready for such things or be really giving in the real sense.
Loved to see such awesome pictures of you with your adorable kids, especially when they were small. And of course, Blake fits in so perfectly well with you and the kids as well.
Thanks for sharing more about yourself and your family with all of us. This surely isn’t easy but I’m sure everyone facing a similar situation would learn a great deal about how to seek permission to travel and live abroad.
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Harleena Singh recently posted..Why Fuss About a Good Habit
August 28, 2012
Annie AndreThank you for adding to the conversation Harleena.
Yes we did go through a lot and for a long time i felt like no one was there to help me with the boys. Suddenly when I was remarried and when i wanted to travel with the boys my ex made a huge stink. or at least that is how it seems.
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This was not easy to share and i appreciate your support and your feedback.
Annie Andre recently posted..How To Travel or Live Abroad With Kids When Your Ex Says NO!
August 29, 2012
AdrienneI applaud you Annie for standing behind what you want for you and the kids. I KNOW you have their best interests at heart and I’ve heard way too many stories like yours I’m afraid.
I think it’s important that others also know what you’ve been through because that’s how others can connect.
I have no doubt that the kids are having the time of their lives and it’s not like they were able to spend a lot of time with their Dad. I wish that were the case for more kids from divorced parents but it’s just not the norm.
Thank you for laying it all on the line for us and sharing your own personal experience. You are one awesome lady and Blake is a fabulous man for loving your boys. I’m sure he loves them like they are his own too.
Bravo to you all.
~Adrienne
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August 29, 2012
Annie AndreThank You Adrienne,
The kids are definitely getting a unique education.
And they actually speak to their father more now than they used to thanks to skype. I bought my ex a web camera so he could talk to my boys on his computer. Before that, they talked rarely over the phone except on his days to take them.
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Annie Andre recently posted..How To Travel or Live Abroad With Kids When Your Ex Says NO!
August 29, 2012
Donna MerrillGood for you Annie!
Phew, what a process! And I thought I had it bad being married 3 times and getting that all straightened out.
Looks like you have done all the correct things to cover you. And I appreciate this post because in sharing your story, you will have helped many.
It must have took some guts to do this, but it is real and it is your story…BRAVO!
Due to the divorce rate and due to the world being one place where people have to travel or move for business purposes, this will help so many others.
Thank you,
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Donna
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August 29, 2012
Annie AndreAh, 3 is the magic number right? The power of three.
I feel like iv’e done everything I could and always in the best interest of my children. I have a clean conscience because of it.
I truly hope this post helps people in one way or another.
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Annie Andre recently posted..How To Travel or Live Abroad With Kids When Your Ex Says NO!
August 29, 2012
JennySigh…even the little I know (after the matter), I wouldn’t expect anything less from your ex. Crazy what people do purely out of spite and for no other reason.
Its brave for you to share personal stuff in such a public setting.
Even with my best friend’s recommendation not to, I litterally cut people cold turkey who cause me any bit of drama. Still…seems drama in my life is unavoidable. I feel things have to happen for a reason and someday I may understand why…for now keeping pushing forward. You are one tough cookie to brave forward despite all the crazy set backs.
I read that you have to have a signed consent from the other parent. I have been to both Singapore and Vietnam with just Lily. I didn’t get questioned. The only thing odd was Lily’s tourist visa got confiscated in Vietnam during our departure. I have a business visa so when I went to VN for tourist, I didn’t have to re-apply. My mom did Lily’s visa for me. My mom is ok dealing with shady people so who knows what. Lily’s visa was a loose leaf one which I never came across. The custom guy kept it and looked shady. I was raised to be afraid of the communist so I didnt question… I just took Lily and made sure we left safely. Maybe someone is stealing Lily’s identity meanwhile. Scary…
I didn’t share a common last name as my mom. Growing up, people always questioned it. So when I got married I didn’t hestitate to drop my last name. Though when we traveled back n forth to Mexico as a family, my passport at the time still had my maiden name. We did get questioned but only by the US Customs but it was no biggy. I do recall the guy making sure I was the mom.
My sister also traveled a fair share with her 3 girls alone all around Asia. She kept her maiden name and hasn’t come across any issues.
I will have to make sure I always travel with a signed document now. I think they should enforce it for child safety.
I didn’t grow up in a normal household. I never had stability. The first thing I did when I became an adult, strive for stability and conformity. Then I realized….screw this all, lol. I fully support how you are raising your kids!!!! If I wasn’t tied down to a mortgage,my rear would have been long gone too. Screw the conventional way of living!! xoxoxo
August 29, 2012
Annie AndreOh Jenny,
You might want to consider getting just a hand written note next time. One of these day someone might ask. it’s rare, but you never know. i get asked maybe more than average because of the different last names. But as of late not so much because the boys are older now.
In terms of all the things you are going through now. These things seem to come and go in waves. It’s cyclical. It might be raining now but soon thing will start to clear up. It’s just how the universe works.
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Annie Andre recently posted..How To Travel or Live Abroad With Kids When Your Ex Says NO!
August 29, 2012
AllieAnnie,
As you know, there are MANY ex’s that are difficult. I have friends that have dead beat ex’s or overbearing ex’s or my personal favorite- take them to court and lie about everything ex’s. (That one is my brother’s ex) It is so unfortunate that the children get what I consider mental abuse. So you hate each other (not you in particular), whatever, just pretend in front of the kids.
On a better note, because I get sad when I hear of kids suffering, you are doing a great job with your kids. I know you try your hardest to give them what a fulfilled childhood and life.
OK…I didn’t know if I travel with my kids without dad, even if we are still married, that I need permission. I am glad you told me that. Not that I am going anywhere without him (sometimes I dream, lol) but this knowledge is good to know.
~Allie
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August 29, 2012
Annie AndreHi Allie,
I’ve heard a lot of horror stories of EX’s.
It’s an uncomfortable and odd place to be. (to be at odds with someone whom you were married to and have children with and unable to come to an amicable agreement at least at some level.
I’ve given up trying. As far as i am concerned, not supporting your children or providing mental support is the kiss of death in my eyes. I just can’t respect someone who doesn’t own up to their responsibilities. i digress.
thanks for your feedback Allie.
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Annie Andre recently posted..How To Travel or Live Abroad With Kids When Your Ex Says NO!
August 29, 2012
Kelvin MylesHey Annie,
thank you for sharing. I’m delighted that the courts make the right decisions some of the time.
I wasn’t quite so lucky – after legally taking custody of my two oldest boys and having written permission to have them live with me in a different country my ex changed her mind.
I made the mistake of flying back to Ireland to attend the court case only to be informed by the court that ‘children belong with their mother’ and I was ordered to return them.
I was later informed that had I not attended the court they would not have been able to make an order as I was living outside Ireland.
Appealing would have cost in excess of 100k with no guaranteed result together with further upset for the kids so I made the choice to visit as often as I could.
That was some years ago and they now travel with me freely as both are over 18. I just regret the years that they didn’t have that freedom.
Your kids a lucky to have such a wonderful mum and I wish you and yours all the best in your future.
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August 29, 2012
Annie AndreWow Kevin,
That must have been really been tough to lose your kids after your ex agreed to let you live abroad with them. Hopefully you don’t keep reliving it and saying “if only”
At least now your kids get to spend time with you and who knows, maybe you might have a beeter relationship with them because of it.
These things are tough especially with kids involved. All we can do is our best. Which it sounds like you do in spades.
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Annie Andre recently posted..How To Travel or Live Abroad With Kids When Your Ex Says NO!
August 29, 2012
MegThat sounds like a lot of work! I really want to have children, a big family. Sometimes I forget about all the work that goes along with it.
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August 29, 2012
Annie AndreYes Meg, It can be a lot of work. Logistically and mentally but in the end, it’s all worth it.
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Thank you for stopping by. Always love to see you here.
Annie Andre recently posted..How To Travel or Live Abroad With Kids When Your Ex Says NO!
August 30, 2012
Praveen RajaraoWow…it is really incredible what one can do when they make up their minds and set their focus and work towards it. You have indeed gone through a lot and I clearly understand what you must have felt standing before the customs guy.
It is a nightmare for me when I travel back from India as well, everyone is left to the whims and fancies of these people who treat us like “slumdogs”.
Nice pics.
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September 1, 2012
Annie AndreSo happy for your input Praveen. I know it must be stressful going back an forth from India especially when you have no control of the outcome. Being treated like a “slumdog” sounds horrible too.
thanks for you input. I truly appreciate it.
August 30, 2012
AlysonWell done for sticking up for your family Annie.We live in Australia, last year I took the kids, no husband, to the UK and Florida, we had no problems, not even a raised eyebrow, despite the children’s passports being Australian, mine British. It had crossed my mind that there may be regulations involved, my husband thought they would just ring him. I guess not.
September 1, 2012
Annie AndreHi Alyson,
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I think 95 percent of the time it will be no problem but honestly, it only takes a few minutes for your huby to write a letter just in case. You carry it with you and if customs doesn’t ask you than no big deal. You throw it out. But if they do, you show it to them and no hastles.
Thanks for you input Alyson.
Annie Andre recently posted..How The Millers Lost Their Money And Still Travel The World With Their Kids
September 3, 2012
SteveWow, I had no idea you would need to go through that entire process when you’re traveling without the other parent. I guess it makes sense, but it’s not something I normally think about. Since I don’t have kids, I don’t have to think about things like this. This is good information to know though if my wife and I start having some kids. One of us might be traveling without the other (although I hope we’d be traveling together) and need a note from the other.
It’s too bad that he was so difficult about it all. But I’m glad you got it all sorted out and can travel with them now.
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October 19, 2012
Annie AndreSteve, you are not alone. Many parents don’t even know this or do this. The fact that i have a different last name than my children usually raises eyebrows and that is why i am very careful. Plus, my ex does a lot of threatening if i take them out of country.
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Annie Andre recently posted..Will You Regret Delaying Your Travel Dreams? + 5 Deathbed Regrets
September 5, 2012
AlanHi Annie,
I did wonder about your son being called Andre Andre
This is quite close to home for me as my brother-in-law can’t travel with his daughter for similar reasons meaning he can’t visit us in the UK.
His case is quite messy with an on-going custody battle and in his case the mother doing all kinds of strange things to avoid discussing anything even via the courts (such as ‘accidentally’ losing her daughters mobile phone, passport, forgetting to inform anyone of a change of address…)
Sorry to hear about all that you have been through – particularly knowing from my own relatives how stressful (and expensive) it can be – particularly long-distance.
So what happened next – are you still in touch with your ex at all?
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October 19, 2012
Annie AndreLots of people think that about my son Andre Andre. LOL. I don’t publicize their last names openly. Although anyone could find it if they wanted to.
custody is an ugly even. I know your brother in law must know all about it.
I speak with my ex- on ocassion but for the good of all i try to avoid as much contact as possible. the boys are old enough to communicate and initiate skype ccalls so i don’t have to interact much. It’s better that way.
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September 6, 2012
SharaThis is a great post! I love hearing other moms’ stories….. having family court experience for about 8 years now, it sounds like California is the place to be. NY seems to be SUPER passive to fathers who don’t pay child support for 8 years, don’t stay sober for 8 years, and don’t keep their children safe. There is no justice, at least it seems that way right now!
Your story is amazing and I am glad you shared it with the world! Peace!
October 19, 2012
Annie AndreThanks for your support Shara.
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March 13, 2013
Camille PfeifferHi Annie I loved your blog, I’m in the same situation. I have full physical custody of my kids but share joint legal custody. At first my ex agreed to sign a letter but then said no because I wouldn’t meet him in another state. He lives in Georgia and I live in Iowa. I want to travel to Winnipeg for 8 days for a family reunion, after reading my divorce papers it states that “The wife shall consult the husband on all important matters, after wife has consulted with the husband and solicited his input the wife shall make the important decisions on matters to the children.
Do you think that would be enough to get through the border?
Thanks
Camille
March 13, 2013
Annie AndréHello Camille,
Unfortunately, when you cross a border, any border, you may be asked to provide proof that the other parent gave you permission to take your child out of the country.
So, even though your agreement says “the wife shall consult the husband on all important matter….” and you did consult with him, you will still need proof.
You could chance it and take your child out of the country and hope that they don’t ask you for proof.
I have been asked a few times to provide proof but many times i have not been asked. This is why i had the wording in my agreement say that I don’t need written permission from my ex. Instead it says I can travel without written permission to and from Canada. I only need tell him of our itinerary and i keep my email as proof.
If you want to make regular visits to Canada, i would have your agreement modified if you don’t think your childs father will agree to write a letter everytime..
Try negotiating with him and offer to give him an extra week with your child or another weekend or something in return for writing you a letter to travel to Canada..
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September 6, 2012
Tim BonnerHey Annie
I’d never have thought I would need a note from my wife if I took the kids abroad. That’s interesting.
My wife is Irish and sometimes takes the kids over to Ireland by herself to see her family. They tend to drive and take the ferry over to Northern Ireland though so it will probably never be a problem as they just drive over the Irish border. Although I’m not sure about it if they flew into Dublin… Hmmmmmm
I think you are doing a wonderful thing for your kids. Giving them first-hand life experience in another culture. That’s really the best way to pick up a new language in any case but there’s so much more they will gain from it.
People generally want things more when they think they’re going to lose them. So, I guess that’s how your ex was thinking. Not that it was necessarily the right way to think. It’s just such a shame that you had to go to court.
Thanks for sharing such personal information with us Annie.
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October 19, 2012
Annie AndreThanks Tim,
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I think you are right about people wanting something more when they think they are going to lose it. It wasn’t until i met my husband now that i got the guts to fight back. Funny how a partner can do that for you isn’t it.
Annie Andre recently posted..Will You Regret Delaying Your Travel Dreams? + 5 Deathbed Regrets
September 7, 2012
JackI have heard some pretty scary stories from friend (men and women) about their exs and kids leaving the country.
I have to imagine it can get pretty hairy when their is limited cooperation between the parties.
Sorry you had to deal with all that.
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October 19, 2012
Annie AndreThanks Jack. But now I have a pretty thick skin so don’t mess with me.
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September 9, 2012
Sylviane NuccioHi Annie,
Sorry for being so late in the game here, because I wouldn’t have wanted to miss this post of yours.
Wow, Your story can be not only inspiring for other families but very helpful as well.
I have a friend from Morocco who is stuck here in the US because the father of her is American. For this reason she says she can’t move to Morocco. I think that this post might be helpful to her and I will give her the link.
I didn’t even know that you had a complicate situation like that either. Nice to learn a bit more from you
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October 19, 2012
Annie AndreSylviane,
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what doesn’t kiss us makes us stronger right? Your friend sounds like she is in a sticky situation. It’s might be hard for her to take the kids to Morrocco. In my case, i own a home in the US and i have family in Canada so there was evidence that i would return one day. Your friend should talk to a lawyer which i’m sure she has already done.
Annie Andre recently posted..Will You Regret Delaying Your Travel Dreams? + 5 Deathbed Regrets
September 10, 2012
JanetI’m really not into the whole marriage thing. I’m not sure why. It’s supposed to be every girl’s dream but it just seems like a hassle to me. So I just want to keep my name and not have to change it ever.. But then the whole having kids thing and different names.. yeah, it does sound like it get complicated, no matter how hard I try to avoid complications :/
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October 19, 2012
Annie Andreoops, your comment got stuck in spam until i released it. Weird.
My husband and i thought about not getting married but did so in the end because of legal reasons. If he dies what happens. Health benefits, and it just made things easier. That’s why we did not have a big ass wedding. Instead we took our money and the kdis for a whole month abroad and it was still cheaper than any wedding. LOL.
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you do what is best for you. You’ll know when the time is right what to do.
Annie Andre recently posted..Will You Regret Delaying Your Travel Dreams? + 5 Deathbed Regrets
September 19, 2012
Xuehi, Annie,your are a brave soul and a wonderful mother! Your writing is very helpful for some peole who need to travel with their child after divorcing. Thank you so much!
October 19, 2012
Annie Andreyou are welcome Xue. Thanks for leaving a comment
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October 14, 2012
SoniaWow, I didn’t know you had to do all of that. I admire your due diligence and determination to make sure that your boys were with you.
I know some deadbeat dads too (no kids here), and when you finally want to do something they all of a sudden want to “play the role”. Good for you girl!
October 19, 2012
Annie AndreSonia,
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wow, it’s like you just peered into my life. Thanks Sonia for all your support. :O
Annie Andre recently posted..Will You Regret Delaying Your Travel Dreams? + 5 Deathbed Regrets
October 17, 2012
Tracey McLauchlanSo happy for you. I too am living with 2 girls from a previous marriage and 2 girls from my marriage now. I got court order to take the girls with me to live in Kuala Lumpur this is so amazing for my kids. Now my big girls don’t want to go home in 2015 and me ether. How do I get the courts to grant me a longer time in TX?
Tracey
October 18, 2012
Annie AndreThis is a tough one Tracey. I can’t give you legal advice but I can tell you what I would do.
First, I would contact the father and ask him for permission. If he grants it than all you have to do is modify your current child custody agreement to reflect that he has given you permission. ( you’ll need to file the documents at the court house most likely by hiring a lawyer or perhaps a para legal.).
If the father does not agree, you will have to take the legal route.
Most likely you are still a Texas resident. Unless you changed residency to another state, i believe the last state you lived in is your official residency.
Since you are no longer living in Texas, you will have to hire a lawyer to file the documents for you in court or wherever your child custody agreement is located to amend it.
In California where my child custody case was held, i was able to attend court via the phone because i no longer lived in California. Perhaps Texas has the same type of law?
I think A couple of things will work in your favour. 1- if the girls are older they can speak for themselves. 2- If they are thriving and it is in their best interest to stay there.
So in short, there is no easy answer other than to seek legal help and to start as soon as possible. My documents took almost 8 months to get approved from start to finish. There is usually a backlog in the court system so start at least a year before you are due to return.
Good luck to you. Let me know if you have anymore questions.
October 17, 2012
Tracey McLauchlanI ment to not have to move back to Texas lol sorry
January 22, 2013
kirstinReading your artical gives me hope in knowing that i can travel and possible live abroad with my 5 year old son. i am in what feels like a hurricane of emotions frustration and mind games, it has been a roller coaster for me too try get any thing on paper from my Ex, he say’s yes one day and then no the next, a yes/no tug of war with him, he threatens too end his life which i feel is black mail too getting me too stay in the country, very unstable and sudden change’s of character, he is behind in child support and has told me that he doesn’t intend on sending me money to help for our son. I have had no choice but too start searching else where in my professional field, for more disposable outcome,better living for myself and son and in a nut shell a new life. i do have full custody and visitations for my ex too see his son,when he can. i don’t know what too do at this point in order too move forward, should i see my lawyer at this point or keep persisting in getting the ex’s written permission?what do i do?
January 31, 2013
Annie AndréKirstin,
I’m sorry for the emotional roller coaster you are going through.
I remember when I was in a similar situation. The hardest part was seeking the help of the lawyer but once I did, i felt so much better. I had questions answered. i learned what my rights were and learned what I could and could not do from a legal standpoint so i could focus on taking care of my children the best i knew how.
SO, i think it won’t hurt to see a lawyer and concurrently try to talk things out with your ex. If he won’t budge at least you will have gotten the wheels rolling with the lawyer.
Good luck Kirstin..
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January 28, 2013
StefanieHi, Thanks for your amazing story. Im going through something similar at the moment. Me and my husband got married in New zealand, I lived there 8 years before i met him , then we met and lived another 5 years there. We also married in New Zealand and had our son there in 2010. So all 3 of us have New Zealand passports but are originally from Bulgaria. We decided to go and live in UK, so we went there boughts a house in London and after a year decided to come to Bulgaria just for 6 months to visit relatives which we havent seen for a while….Tha plan was to go back to uk..My husban decided he wanted to get a divorce and told me that im not allowed to take our son out of Bulgaria. It was all a shock because I havent lived in Bulgaira for 15 years and can easy live and work in New Zealand or Uk. Now we are selling our house in UK because e needs the money and me and my son are stuck here in Bulgaria….i have no idea what to do, its so horrible, it feels like being in a prison. To leave Bulgaria I will need a written permision from my husband because Bulgaria is part of an agreement and they always ask for permisiion. My husband is definate that he wants our son to be next to him….its so unfair and i have no idea what to do..I might get the New Zealand courts to decide something but if we are not there i have no idea how it will happen..
Just thought I will mention…sorry for the long post but I really hope I can be as strong as you were and get the process going and hopefully move back to uK or NZ because here the country is economically very bad and is no place to raise children.
January 28, 2013
Annie AndréStephanie,
I’m so sorry about your predicament. As i was reading your words I wondered what i would do and although you may be overwhelmed and stressed out you have to take the first step to figure out what to do.
I wish i could be more help to you but all i can offer you is encouragement and let you know that you are not alone. If you can, try to seek out a support group. Even if only online. They will help you get through the tough times so you don’t feel alone or isolated.
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Hopefully because your son was born outside of Bulgaria and you lived outside bulgaria too that that will hold some weight in a court of law in the UK or New Zealand.
Good luck and stay strong.
Annie André recently posted..How To Travel Indefinitely: The Barnes Family Quest To Travel With 3 Kids
January 29, 2013
Claire BYou need to seek legal help from someone in the place you are now residing. Where the child legally lives is usually the place of jurisdiction.
Do not go abroad without the fathers permission unless you are advised legally. It is seen as abduction. Find out if Bulgaria comes under the Hague Convention. Harder to get children out of countries who are not.
The child deserves to love and be loved by both parents.
Try to see if that is possible first.
Good luck Important that you seek legal advice.
January 29, 2013
Claire BHi Annie, as I am in the process of applying for custody of my kids and mobility, I came across your article. My situation is somewhat similar – I have remarried and have a gorgeous 1 yr old daughter with my second husband. My three children from my first marriage are twins 5 yrs old and a daughter who is 6.
My first marriage was with a Canadian. It failed to work and I became the kids primary caregiver. The kids were just 2 and 3 at the time. Moving on, after struggling alone I applied to move to the UK. It was rejected on the basis of me having no solid plan. My lawyer was not experienced in mobility trials and after being forced to remain in the UK without my children after the decision (financially I couldnt go back when their father stopped making court ordered payments when I went on a vacation to the UK) I have since fought tooth and nail for access. My ex who was granted sole custody because I didnt return, does not follow the court orders and more importantly does not facilitate access. Thankfully the court has ensured access in the UK but I have to go to court due to my ex refusing. He even lied about my due date to the court, claimed my husband should not fly to collect the kids when I was pregnant and also implied my 59 yr old mother was physically unable to handle her grandchildren for travel. This is the tip of the iceberg I have had to deal with. Now I am about to go through the very gruelling task of self-representation in trial to present my evidence.
When an ex is prepated to lie in court and damage your character, be prepared to prove it.
My last lawyer did not make him accountable and didnt prepare me for showing a solid plan.
Luckily I am prepared but I have tbe benefit of my husbands legal study.
I recommend that if you are a parent who is suffering from a controlling ex who uses the kids to hurt you then you must seek advice and keep records of everything. At least if you represent yourself yoy have evidence. Case law can be found online and you need help with that too. Understanding the legal framework is also necessary for your argument. Read your relevant acts – divorce act, family act, childrens act.
As you say Annie, every case is individual and a judge will always look at what is in the best interests of the children. My advice is wait before having children with someone and dont have your kids abroad.
Ive learnt the hard way.
Wishing all the good parents and their children happy times.
January 31, 2013
Annie AndréClaire,
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Every word you wrote struck a chord of familiarity. It’s like that feeling you get of deja vu.
You really gave some solid advice here.
I want to re-emphasise what you said.
keep solid records: Keep a journal even of al the days where the kids were supposed to go from one parent to the other. If all went well, mark it as a successful day. But, if something happened. That person was late or made it difficult, keep notes of it. having detailed records of something like this for long periods of time, even if it is on a calendar will do loads for your credibility in court.
Annie André recently posted..How To Travel Indefinitely: The Barnes Family Quest To Travel With 3 Kids
March 12, 2013
14 Influential Bloggers For Life Hacking[...] Annie Andre - The reason Annie from Practical Adventurology really caught my eye was because she posted a blog article about having to petition the court to live in Paris for a year with her kids. I am going to have to embark on a similar journey since I share custody of my son with his dad. So far, she is THE ONLY single parent I have found that was able to travel with joint custody… so hopefully I will be joining her ranks! You can read about her journey here: How to Travel or Live Abroad with Kids when you Ex says NO! [...]
April 4, 2013
CarrieLoved reading your storey and you’ve noted some brilliant info and tips that I am def going to follow!
My sister lives in France and I have been applying for jobs in Geneva to commute everyday..as its only half and hour.I have a 3 year old little girl. We dont have any family in the UK only my ex’s family and im waiting to hear about a job so we can move, at present his parents have withdrawn the care they were offering so my daughter is in paying nursery..im hoping this will help my case along with my sister helping with picking up my daughter from school because my sister is a house wife…so the fact that I will have a good network…a well paid job and the fact they wont have my daughter in the uk..im hoping will swing it…i will apply for the court order…how long will this take???My problem is that I may need to take temporary contracts and if this is the case…I will need to go nearly straight away.How doable is this? If an employers offers me a job can I just go?
April 4, 2013
Annie Andrécarrie, I would not advise you to just taking your daughter out of the country permanently without court approval. Perhaps you can get the ball rolling but i’m pretty sure you will need permission. More and more countries are asking for proof that you have the other parents permission just to travel to other countries.
On the other hand, it will help your case that your sister is there to help you. As always, you should talk to a lawyer because every case is different.
Good luck..
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April 4, 2013
carrieThanks for the quick reply…noted i will def make sure its done properly…my solicitor who from now i will be going it alone…dont have the finances for solicitor he said theres a few factors that the courts will be happy with..one is that i have a network (meaning my sister who can look after my daughter whilst I work) the other is a job and also that my daughter is enrolled in a school…this my solicitor has said helps my case massively…also the fact that his parents were helping with nursery but are now not..but my question is…how long do you think getting the court order will take???
April 4, 2013
Annie AndréI can’t tell you how long it will take. Each case is going to be different Carrie. A lot depends on how cooperative your daughters father will be. You will probably also need to consider how you will convince the judge that you will ensure that the relationship between your daughter and her father is maintained. My own case took about 7 months from the time i filed the papers to the day i got the legal document in my hands giving me permission but I know someone said it took her 2 years to complete the process. On the flipside, if you ex just signs a document allowing you to go with your daughter the whole process will go much faster.
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May 8, 2013
michelleThis is so helpful & I admire your determination. Most mothers would have given into their exes but your link brings hope.
My situation is similar i’m on my 2nd marriage & have 2 sons from previous. I applikoed for PR to Canada (automatically needed notarized consent before they even continued with the process).my ex was very cooperative.
Was there only one year & my eldest teenager decided to return to UK so stayed with father (we were & still are on good terms). Fast forwarding 3years later have baby but my marriage is on the rocks mainly because i miss my sons (visited UK last year & want to return) & hubby doesnt want to! Baby was born in UK so now has no FULL canadian health cover, on a 6m (extended to 1yr) visitor visa so now we have to extend visa or file for PR. Hubby said if i want to leave Canada with baby to visit sons in UK i now have to get his consent.
My question is although baby on visitor visa when this expires do i still need consent to visit or live in UK because baby will be in country illegally so if he placed a court order will we have to stay? I f yes then it would turn into a long court battle because I would love the flexibility to still visit the UK.